Oncologist

My visits with the medical oncologists yesterday and today went well, and there was some consensus on how to proceed.

[BLUF: We’re kicking the can down the road three months.]

UCSD Oncologist

The first part of the meeting was getting the doctor up to speed on my case, as he didn’t have any of the history. Of course, nerd me came prepared with a two-page Reader’s Digest chronological summary of my diagnosis and treatment, printouts of my PSA charts, and copies of the PSA doubling time (PSA DT) calculations.

PSA Doubling Time

Because PSA DT is an important number in the decision-making process, I opened the conversation by asking him how many data points should be used in the calculations. He chuckled a bit before saying that one of the downfalls of using PSA DT is you can pick and choose the data that you want to get the answer that you want. So true.

I calculated my PSA DT using 3, 4, and 5 values and came up with different answers:

Number of values used	Going back X months	Calculated PSA DT
3	6	7.6 months
4	9	8.0 months
5	14	9.2 months

He just looked at the curve on my PSA tracking chart and estimated in his head that it was around nine months. In his eyes, that six to nine month PSA DT warrants closer observation and monitoring.

Inconclusive PSMA PET scans

We discussed my four inconclusive PSMA PET scans and [F18] FDG PET scan, and whether he thought that I was PSMA negative. He thought it was unlikely that I was, offering up a case with another patient whose PSA was over 50 ng/mL and still showing up negative on PSMA PET scans.

One of the reasons that we talked about that at some length was that he suggested that Pluvicto / Lutetium-177 might be an option.

I asked about getting an Axumin scan or a Choline-11 scan, and he wasn’t in favor of doing either of those at the moment.

When to Start ADT

We also discussed when to start androgen deprivation (hormone) therapy (ADT). He didn’t have a set of specific criteria that he would use—e.g., specific PSA number, evidence of metastasis—but did focus in on the rate of PSA rise (PSA DT) and “patient motivations and preferences.”

What type of ADT

The doctor was a proponent of intermittent therapy in my case with six to twelve months on, then a similar period off. His goal would be to “maximize time off treatment” as long as my PSA is holding relatively steady and not going bonkers.

He seemed a tad hesitant to start with the combination therapy of ADT + ARPI (Eligard + Enzalutamide), but wasn’t opposed to it, either. He wasn’t a fan of trying the Enzalutamide alone because of its side effects (gynecomastia, in particular) and not seeing any substantial changes in long term outcomes.

Summary

I did share with the doctor the VA MO’s desire to start ADT + ARPI sooner rather than later, and he had a much lower sense of urgency in taking action. And, while I was a bonehead and didn’t explicitly ask him for his recommended course of action, the entire conversation led me to conclude that his preference was for continued close observation.

VA Oncologist

I technically didn’t meet with the oncologist; I met with a nurse practitioner who had reviewed my case with the oncologist just before (and during) my appointment.

Discussion

It was interesting that she opened the conversation with a quick review of my last appointment there, told me my PSA results from last week, and then said something along the lines of, “If you’re not ready to start ADT today, the doctor is okay with monitoring for another three months.”

At that point, I mentioned that I went to the UCSD MO the day before, and I spent a good chunk of time relaying how that meeting went.

I reminded her that I have the bone density scan in a few weeks and I intended to go through with that to establish a baseline even though we might not start ADT right away. She agreed.

I’m still meeting with the VA urologist on 23 June and want to get their thoughts on what’s next.

Summary

We’re going to do another PSA test in September, and the VA MO didn’t want to schedule an appointment with me until December with another PSA test just before that meeting, too. Interestingly, the VA MO also wanted to schedule a regular CT scan and bone scan ahead of the December appointment.

However, if the September PSA test jumps up significantly, we’ll revisit that plan based on the results. That may change doing the CT/Bone scans to another PSMA PET scan.

The Plan

In short, we’re going to kick the can down the road another three months.

More specifically:

Bone density scan – 17 June
Urologist appointment – 23 June
PSA test – First week of September
CT and Bone scan – First week of December
PSA test – First week of December
VA Oncology Appointment – 8 December

Summary

On the whole, I’m pleased with the plan as it stands right now. The UCSD MO emphasized the shared decision-making approach, adding in his notes, “Daniel is very well educated about his illness and understands there is no clearcut right and wrong answer.” Ain’t that the truth (about the no right or wrong answer).

Once I cleared the hurdles of getting set up in the UCSD system, I was impressed by the friendliness and professionalism of their staff in the department. They have a patient portal app that allows access to records and makes communicating about appointments—in both directions—quite easy.

One thing that I’ve noticed with both the VA and UCSD oncology departments is that their empathy and caring nature seems to be a notch or two above that of their respective urology departments. Not that the urology teams aren’t caring or empathetic; it’s just that the oncology folks seem to take it a step further.

I know the VA MO expressed a desire to take the lead on my case at my last appointment, and I’ll mention that to the urologist on the 23rd. And, for now, as pleasant as the experience at UCSD was, I plan on having the VA be my primary source of care.

More to come.

Be well!

Header image: Sunset, Imperial Beach, California

It’s been a busy two days hanging out at the doctor’s offices between the scan and the oncologist. Here’s a summary of each, my final thoughts, and a quick explainer about hormone therapy for the uninitiated at the end.

¹⁸F-FDG PET Scan

“No evidence of metabolically active malignancy or metastatic disease.”

Well, I hate to say it, but I’m not necessarily surprised by that result. I didn’t have high hopes of getting a definitive answer going into the scan given its lower sensitivity and lower specificity, but I thought it was definitely worth the effort.

As far as the procedure itself was concerned, it was slightly different than the ⁶⁸Ga-PSMA-11 PET scan. I had to fast for at least 6 hours (no food, just water) before the injection of the ¹⁸F-FDG tracer. They also had to measure my blood glucose level to ensure it was under 200 mg/dL (it was). If it was over, the scan would have been canceled.

There was a one-hour waiting period for the tracer to distribute through my body, and the scan itself took 45 minutes. Seeing as I had to get up at 4:30 a.m. for my 7 a.m. appointment, that hour in the recliner was much needed.

I actually met with two medical oncologists this morning, the resident about to complete his training (MO Jr.) and the full-blown MO Sr. who focuses on prostate and breast cancer. It was a good, nearly hour-long discussion. In a nutshell:

It was disappointing that the imaging didn’t show anything and, even though it would be nice to know where the cancer is located, MO Sr. felt it was time to start systemic treatment.
MO Sr.’s triggers for starting hormone therapy were a PSA greater than 2.0 ng/mL (I’m at 2.52) and a PSA doubling time less than 9 months (I’m at 8.9 months).
MO Sr. said that, with my numbers, I’m at “higher risk” for this to get away from us and metastasize.
MO Jr. said that the window for curative options has closed and that treatment going forward would be “palliative.” (I already knew that curative options were out the window.)
Both agreed it’s time for them (Oncology) to take the lead on my case at this point, with Urology still available in a supporting role.
Both suggested dual therapy involving androgen deprivation therapy (ADT) using Eligard (leuprolide acetate) and and androgen receptor pathway inhibitor (ARPI) using Xtandi (enzalutamide) as the current standard of care. [See explanation below if you’re unfamiliar.]
MO Sr. also suggested intermittent therapy over continuous therapy, using a 9-month schedule to start.

If she had her way, I believe MO Sr. would have had me start the therapy in the next week or so. I tapped on the brakes on that idea. I told her that Urology wanted another PSA test done in early June, and I thought it would be good to get that done before starting anything. Also, I’m traveling in May and I simply wanted to postpone anything until after I return. Six weeks won’t make that much of a difference.

We agreed, in concept, to the following:

No more scans to try to located the cancer for now.
Get pre-therapy lab work done the week after Memorial Day to establish baseline testosterone and PSA levels (among others) ahead of therapy.
Get a Dexa bone density scan to get a baseline prior to starting treatment (extended ADT can weaken bone density).
Meet on 2 June to review the results and make the final decision as to whether to start treatment.

Final Thoughts

It’s only been a few hours since the meeting, and I’m still trying to absorb it all and process it. Of course, after 15+ years of dealing with this, I knew we would eventually get to this point. Am I ready or willing to take the advice of the National Cancer Institute doctors in the video I shared recently to just monitor and delay treatment? I don’t know. It’s something that I’ll have to contemplate over the next six weeks or so.

I will say that I was pretty impressed with the Oncology Department as a whole. You’re assigned a care coordinator and given their direct phone number for all questions or concerns, and both doctors were good at listening and engaging in a real conversation. It seemed like they were a bit more empathetic over all, and that’s a good thing.

Certainly a lot to take in in the days and weeks ahead. I’m open to thoughts and feedback.

Be well!

—Dan

Hormone Therapy Explained

For those who aren’t really familiar with how prostate cancer works and what role hormone therapy plays, here’s a grossly over-simplified explainer.

Prostate cancer feeds off of testosterone and, as long as there’s a supply of testosterone, the cancer will continue to grow.

There are two ways to deprive the cancer of testosterone. The first is to stop or slow the production of testosterone. The second is to block the cancer cells from receiving the testosterone. The current standard of care is to use both methods simultaneously.

Let’s say the cancer cells are in the bottom of your favorite travel mug, thirsty for testosterone. If you put the mug under running water from your tap, the cells get the water (testosterone) they need and the cancer grows. But if you turn the tap off, the water (testosterone) stops flowing, and the cells in the bottom of the mug can’t grow. This is called androgen deprivation therapy (ADT).

The other way to stop the cancer cells in the bottom of the mug from getting water (testosterone), is to simply put the lid on and block the water from entering the mug. This is called androgen receptor pathway inhibitors (ARPI).

If you do both simultaneously, you can really slow the growth of the cancer. But we also know that some taps have slow leaks that drip water and, if the lid is slightly open, water (testosterone) and still make it to the cancer cells inside the mug.

There are two ways of turning the tap off. One, an orchiectomy, is a radical, surgical and permanent removal of the testes. But the adrenal glands also produce a small amount of testosterone, too, so the flow isn’t completely stopped.

The other is to use an ADT drug to have the brain tell the testes to stop producing testosterone. The drug is given via an injection in typically one, three, or six month doses, and it has significant side effects: hot flashes, mood swings, fatigue, loss of libido, loss of muscle strength, and loss of bone density, to name a few.

The way to put a lid on the mug is through an ARPI drug that’s usually taken in pill form daily. In my case, MO Sr. was recommending Xtandi (enzalutamide) as the ARPI. It has its own host of side effects: muscle and joint pain, fatigue, falls and bone fractures, headaches, high blood pressure and others.

The good news is that this combined treatment option can keep the cancer at bay for years (as long as you stay on it for years). However, at some point, the cancer can become resistant to the drugs, and you may have to move to stronger treatment options like chemotherapy.

Again, this is an oversimplification for those new to the topic.

Header image: Anza-Borrego Desert, California

Dan's Journey through Prostate Cancer

Tag: Oncologist

Day 5,683 – Medical Oncologist Visits